A Conversation with NYC’s Mayor-Elect Eric Adams

Eric Adams: [00:00:00] And that is part of the problem with policing. It's the urgency and unwillingness to evolve as our civilization and country evolves. We're still using antiquated methods. To prevent person, a person from harming themselves and harming others. It's time evolve to learn better tactics they're there. Once you put it in the universe, you'll find other discoveries that be used to really use non-lethal ways to prevent someone from committing the crime and hurting themselves in

Paul Shapiro: others.

Welcome to the business for good podcast to show where we spotlight companies, making money by making the world a better. I'm your host Paul Shapiro. And if you share a passion for using commerce to solve many of the world's most pressing problems, then this is the show for you. Well, friends a year and a half ago, a guy who few people had ever heard of came onto this podcast to talk both about the business of police reform, as well as his new book [00:01:00] advocating plant based eating.

Now he is a former police officer. And so his commentary on police reform was particularly. But at the time in the interview, he was also a second term borough president of Brooklyn, which is kind of like being a county executive. And he certainly had nearly no national profile. I mentioned in the episode that he was reportedly considering a run for New York city's mayor's office and that some people were even considering him a farm runner all the way back then.

Well, those pundits turned out to be right as Eric Adams eventually announced his may oral candid. He subsequently dispatched his democratic rivals in the primary, including far better known candidates like Andrew Yang, and then overwhelmingly beat his Republican opponent on election. Now Adams is about to be inaugurated as the first vegan mayor of America's largest city and his plant-based diet.

Isn't incidental to his platform. In fact, he has big food policy plans, some of which he foreshadows in this interview, which we are now, re-releasing here as episode 78. [00:02:00] Now that Eric is a virtually household name due to his successful mayor bid. In this interview, Adams talks about how his experience of being beaten by police.

While in custody, as a black teenager, led him to become a police officer himself for two decades, and then ultimately to a life in politics. After serving in the police force, Adams was elected as a state Senator in New York where he championed police reforms, including opposition to the then and frisk policy.

He served two terms as the chief executive of New York, city's most populous borough Brooklyn. And of course he is now set to become the city's mayor with pundits, calling him even the future of the democratic party and possibly even a future presidential contender. In addition to discussing technologies from the private sector that Eric believes could be helpful in preventing lethal use of Forcey.

We also discussed how Adam's adoption of a plant-based diet reversed. His diabetes, gave him back its health and what he thinks private businesses can do to advance public health. And yes, he also talks about what he thinks government should be doing to promote better [00:03:00] health outcomes through diet. So maybe this interview will serve as a nice foreshadowing of things to come as Adams prepares to take the reigns of power in the big apple, who knows maybe in fact, they'll even be eating more apple.

So sit back and enjoy this episode that originally came out a year and a half ago with Eric Adams. Hello, friends, and welcome to the 44th episode of business for good in which I talk with one of the most credible voices on police reform in the nation, Brooklyn burrow, president Eric Adams, as you'll hear in the interview, Eric, and yes, that's what he asks people to call him rather than the more proper borough president talks about how his experience of being beaten by the police while in custody as a black teenager.

Led him to become a police officer himself for two decades, and then ultimately to a life in politics. After serving in the police force, Eric was elected as a state Senator in New York where he championed police reforms, including opposition to the then stop and frisk policy. And he's now in his second term as the chief executive of New York, city's most populous [00:04:00] borough.

And while it's still early, Eric is already considered by many as a front runner in the November, 2021 mayor oral race in America's largest city for what it's worth the current New York city mayor, bill de Blasio will be termed out of office and cannot run for reelection. In addition to discussing technologies from the private sector that Eric believes could be helpful in preventing lethal use of force by police.

We also discuss how Eric's adoption of a plant-based diet reversed. His diabetes, gave him back his health and what he thinks private businesses can do to advance public health. Eric was in transit during our interview. So you'll hear a small amount of background noise, but rest assured it's minor and does not prevent you from hearing the important words he has to say.

I learned a lot from Eric's inspirational story and his prescriptions for both better policing and eating. And I think you will too. So now sit back as I bring you Brooklyn burrow, president Eric Adams, Eric Adams. Welcome to the business for good podcast.

Eric Adams: Thank you so much, Paul. Pleasure on with you [00:05:00] podcast are so powerful.

It gives us an opportunity to have a conversation and not live in sound bites. You better

Paul Shapiro: it. Well, you take as much time as you want. You don't have to speak in sound bites. I know politicians often have to, but yeah, you gotta ample time here, man. So don't worry about it. So let's just get right down to it.

You know, you are right now serving as the, uh, Brooklyn borough president for people who don't know what a borough president is. Just give us a brief explanation. What is.

Eric Adams: In their municipalities, it may be called a county executive. OK. New York city has five counties. Brooklyn is the largest of the five.

And in fact, if Brooklyn was a separate city, it would be the third largest city in America with 2.6 million people, 47% of them speaking language other than English at home. And our role is to make sure our county receive a fair amount of resources and services from the city agencies. Very

Paul Shapiro: good. Very good.

[00:06:00] Well, thank you. I live in California. I know that I, I have my own county executive, so it makes it easier for me to understand it when you put in those terms. But those are obviously really massive numbers and you were, uh, born and raised there. You know, you were coming up as a young kid back in the seventies in Brooklyn.

And tell me about the experience that I know you've talked about it before, but briefly you had a pretty negative experience getting arrested and it put you on a trajectory in your life that many people might not have predicted for you. So tell me about what happened back.

Eric Adams: It's so true. The, uh, I was 15 years old and my brother and I were arrested for criminal trespassing and for no reason, other than the desire to do something sadistic in my mind, my brother and I were beat bad by police officers.

And it, it really stole my innocence. And I think sometimes people don't realize that 15 year old children, no matter what race they are, they are still children. [00:07:00] And that symbol of a police precinct was a place of protection, turned into a place of indecency for me and my grades were impacted. I became a very angry and really troubled young man because of that.

And I had a lot of pain inside me for many years, until I eventually, uh, met a group of leaders in an organization that fought against police brutality. And they subsequently encouraged me to go into policing, to change from within and reluctantly. I did it and I'm happy I did.

Paul Shapiro: So how, um, how much later in your life Eric was this that you went from having been beaten by the police at age 15 to actually becoming a police officer yourself?

Eric Adams: It was, uh, roughly nine years. That was beat at 15. I became a cop at, uh, 20 and a lot happened during those, uh, nine, 10 years roughly. That really shaped me and the experience of watching [00:08:00] both a man named Arthur Miller 42 years ago, he was killed by 16 officers to it, but one of them used a choke, uh, to take his life as a prominent businessman.

And then a young man named Randolph Evans was shot killed by housing police officer. He never was found guilty. Also. I think it's important when you think about what's happening now, black lives matters. All of us have benchmarked our lives by these negative encounters with police. I was back, uh, when Glover was shot, 10 year old, young boy was shot by officer Glover was just running as a normal child with June.

He was shot and killed. So throughout my life, there's clear memories of the police negative interaction with people of.

Paul Shapiro: And do you think that you're beating at age 15? Would've happened if you were white?

Eric Adams: No, not at all. I think that it was just a, a Noy to [00:09:00] that type of beating and I believe something else.

And I think that many scholars, sociologists and psychiatrists would probably have to figure this out. Better than I, but during slavery, uh, slave masters would plantation owners would cut the stomach of pregnant black women and pull the baby out, uh, to show the other slaves, uh, what could happen to them if they were disobedient.

I really believe some of the stop frisk, some of thes of,

and preventing black and brown young people to go into the department and change the department from within, uh, cause of that PTSD, that stigma. Genetics of years and years of abuse through slavery through, I mean, through a police [00:10:00] abuse. Now

Paul Shapiro: I know that you spent a couple decades as a police officer.

What was your experience like there as a black man who had been abused by the police? You become a police officer yourself. Were you welcomed into that fraternal order or do you feel like you were an outsider? You're

Eric Adams: always an outsider. The blue uniform is not colorblind. Uh, people recognize the skin of individuals are in, it was joined with group of, from the is OFD association, African American officer.

And they've taught me of what I was coming into in the beginning of my career, the numbers of years that they fought. And fighting with. There was a lot of, of physical altercation and VO verbal altercations inside precincts to stop, uh, racism within the police department. And so from the day one, when I was in the police academy later, Eleanor bunkers was and killed by [00:11:00] Sullivan.

And while I was in academy, arguing, that was a terrible racist shooting of this black grandmother. And just to facilitate for my instructor. I was clear that I was getting ready to go into a long journey. And I didn't think I had a career inside that institution because I came in with the mission of dismantling racism.

Is

Paul Shapiro: that part of the reason why you left being a police officer after two decades to go into politics?

Eric Adams: Yes, because I saw that if we want it real change after the Amadou Diallo case. Watching what happened with, and being sodomized inside the precinct

who kill

was, was clear that I had to now use my knowledge and [00:12:00] experience from a police officer to a Sergeant, to a Lieutenant, to a captain. Used that experience to really shape reform down on the legislative end. And that was why I said I wanted to become a state Senator, so I could write laws and show how we could really reform policing.

Sure.

Paul Shapiro: And so I know while you were a state Senator, Eric, you had become like a vocal opponent of the stop and frisk policy. Were there other things that you were doing during that time to advance police reforms? Uh, excuse me, police reforms during your time in the state.

Eric Adams: Yes. I, I was clearly a, an advocate for so many of the changes.

My colleagues came to me often. Uh, when I was Sergeant in police department, I used to gentleman named Rockefeller Disman the Rockefeller drug laws at the time. Little did I know the experience I got from that? I went to Albany and co-sponsored the bill that the [00:13:00] Rockefeller drug laws, we introduced legislation to end the quota system in the police department, Congressman now Congressman actually Jeffrey and I put place a bill that stopped keeping a database of innocent people that.

Stop with stop questioning frisk. They were keeping the names of innocent, black and brown people in the city. And we pushed even prison reform of women used to be handcuffed when they were pregnant. We pushed reform to change that and how we looked at other areas. This police reform is a relay race and next each generation must hand the Baton until we get to cross the finish line of product.

Well thought out. Proactive policing and public safety. Mm-hmm

Paul Shapiro: sure. So let me ask you, you know, president Obama put out a list of what he thought were the, the eight reforms that ought to be implemented by the police. And I know I live [00:14:00] in Sacramento where our own mayor has now endorsed that Darrell Steinberg as has endorsed Obama's platform.

Have you paid attention to what former president Obama is suggesting? And has that been given any thought for the police in Brooklyn or throughout new.

Eric Adams: I have not looked over president Obama's list. Uh, I would like to look at it and I'm hoping that he received input and information from the men and women who are of color and fought against racism in the police department.

I think that's important because one should not go into a profess. And attempt to reform it without having those who have been in profession and have knowledge of that's. That's preventing body of peoples people who actually went through it. [00:15:00] And so there's some clear things we can do today. As I shared with the mayor, we can change how we assign precinct command.

Our city is divided up into precinct. Each command is in charge of a geographical piece of real estate. If we have a better process, local to I precinct commander make a major impact on the quality of people. That we have in our precinct because the, the officers take the direction from the precinct commanders, regardless of what the mayor, the police commission states is the local policing that would change policing in the city and in this country.

Paul Shapiro: I know of course, Eric, as a politician that you are going to first want to, uh, look at what public policies can be changed. Like what you're suggesting here as to how people get selected for leadership roles. In terms of what private [00:16:00] companies might be able to do to help on this. Are there any efforts in the private sector right now that you think could be helpful with police reform in the way that police engage in, for example, detaining people or other types of interactions that are gonna be questionable?

That's a great

Eric Adams: question because we sometimes look at what the police is doing wrong. I think of Jack Nicholson's. Uh, you really can't handle the truth and the few good men mm-hmm, , let's be clear. Some goodhearted people have ignored. What has happened to black and brown people around policing for years, our corporations and businesses basically turned a blind eye to what police was like in America.

Cause they basically said long as our streets are safe around ours. Long as we're able to do business, we're not gonna ourselves with all this reform wasn't[00:17:00]

corporations.

When some of the things that must be done to be more proactive in crime, fighting using technology that's available. Going in and ensuring proper employment, dealing with social conditions. Our healthcare institutions crimes comes outta the lack of proper, proper social issues. And all of us can play a role.

And being more proactive and not reactive to public safety. And I think corporations and businesses can play a major role in doing so even down to training police officers properly for deescalation and how to use proper escalation tactics. Let's talk

Paul Shapiro: about deescalation and also you, you referenced technology.

So, you know, if you watch the video of the [00:18:00] murder of Ray, Richard Brooks in Atlanta, you know, you see this guy who is running away from the police when they shoot him in the back. And I think a lot of people, certainly myself included, they watch then, and they think, why would you shoot somebody with a gun who is running away from.

And surely there must be some easier way to detain somebody than shooting them with bullets in the back as they run away from you. So are there technologies out there that you're aware of, that you could be used to detain somebody without pausing them so much harm? Like a taser? Obviously the taser was already out of play in that particular situation, but is there something that police officers could be equipped with that would enable them to painlessly detain somebody?

Eric Adams: Yes. Without a doubt. And the technology is there just the lack of energy. Of looking at it. One of the best products I've witnessed to do so is something called a BOLO rap. A, this technology is amazing. It's almost like a spider web that [00:19:00] will tie someone up. The evolution of this technology is something that every police officer should have.

It allows you to sub someone like the case we saw in Atlanta, in other cases, Where you don't have to escalate to use your weapon. Uh, it is an amazing tool. We need to look at that and it it's even less lethal than a taser. And I think that we need to incorporate non-lethal devices and subduing people, particularly when they're not, um, with the firearm or extremely in cases with the V wrap, you can use it, even if someone is armed with a knife or some other dangerous in.

Paul Shapiro: It's interesting. You mentioned that because I actually watched the video of Ebola rap being used, and I thought the only harm this is gonna cause to this guy is embarrassment. Like, that's it. He's gonna be embarrassed. Because it is. I mean, it's like a spider web, that's gonna trip 'em up. It's almost like, you know, like not exactly like shooting a Neto over somebody, but it is essentially [00:20:00] IMing them without actually hurting them.

And it just seemed to me like that seems like a business innovation that could really prevent a lot of people from getting hurt and even killed. And it would be even clearer than it is now as to like why such lethal force would be totally unnecessary if you had that. So it's not to say that that it's not unnecessary now, but it's to say it would be, I think, even more queer with that.

So is anybody using Ebola wrap Eric? Do you know if this has actually been deployed in, in the real world, by any police officers,

Eric Adams: some local, small sheriffs and municipalities, they are currently using. And we're hoping that the large agencies like the New York city police department would also start using it.

And that is part of the problem with policing is the urgency and unwillingness to evolve as our civilization and country evolves. We're still using antiquated methods. To prevent person, a person from harming themselves and harming [00:21:00] others. It's time evolve to learn better tactics they're there. Once you put it in the universe, you find other discoveries that be used to really use non-lethal ways to prevent someone from committing the crime and hurting themselves in.

Paul Shapiro: There's a lot to talk about on this topic, but I wanna make sure that we also get in some time to talk about something that I know is also a passion of yours. And so this is gonna feel like an abrupt shift in the conversation. And so, you know, of course, you know, police reform is obviously the big topic of the day in the news and, uh, rightly so at the same time, you become very well known for making a pretty radical shift in your own life, uh, with regard to your own personal health, with regard to your diet.

And so just tell me, Eric, what type of foods did you grow up on and what was the, the health status that you were having as you were moving on through your life and what you thought might be your own future as you look [00:22:00] down at the final half of your life here?

Eric Adams: Well, I was on the typical American diet, my family's from the south.

So we had everything that was processed, fried sugary. High salt, the typical American experience on what we were eating and the results of that. If you're going eat the typical American diet, you're gonna have the typical American disease mm-hmm and it wasn't until four years ago that I was diagnosed with type two diabetes, uh, late stages by the time.

Got to the doctor. It impacted my vision. I lost my sight in my left eye and I was losing to my right doctor, actually told me the ophthalmologist told me that I was legally blind and I had to turn in my driver's license. And I also had permanent damage and my hands and feet that could eventually lead to amputation and high blood pressure, high cholesterol had ulcer.

I couldn't even feel my right thigh [00:23:00] cause of the nerve damage. And. I was told, basically this was my path and like that this is what happens when you reach a certain age. These are some of the diseases that come about and I just refused to embrace that. And I did something extremely, I like to say extremely scientific.

I went to Google and Google diabetes. I know what you know was really interesting that Paul what's that they gave me books and pamphlets. All the doctors, I went to five of the best doctors and they all told me. About how to live with diabetes mm-hmm . And for some reason, I went to the computer instead of typing, living with I type reversing that one road took me down a different

Paul Shapiro: path.

Amazing. You know, it's so interesting that, you know, so often we hear from folks, oh, you know, your parent had this ailment, so therefore you are more likely to have it. And so often it's not because you share genes with your parent, but rather because you share lifestyle with your. I don't wanna steal your thunder on the end of your story here.

So [00:24:00] why don't you go on? So after you Google reversing diabetes, what happens? Did you go blind? Did you have your feet amputated? What happened?

Eric Adams: No, thank God. Uh, the, all the information, uh, came up, I was able to read and I came in contact with some great doctors that really understood the power of food. Dr.

Eton, Dr. Bonna, Dr. Gregory, his book held not to die. And I called Dr. EST and told him who I was and asked, could I come down to see him? And I flew to Ohio to the Cleveland clinic and learned from him the power of food. And I remember Paul him that he was, uh, telling me what I needed to do. And I was saying this guy, some type of quack, I'm losing my sight.

And he's telling me to stop eat fried chicken. What's wrong with him. but, but I had nothing to lose. And so I returned to the city and went through my cupboard. And went through my, and to my [00:25:00] surprise, as I started to, uh, see what he was saying, all my food was processed. It was all, you know, filled with just bad things.

And I threw it all out, started a whole food plant based diet. And three weeks after my vision came back three months after my nerve damage went away, my diabetes went in remission. My ulcer went away. My cholesterol and blood pressure normalized my entire body. I lost 35 pounds and just never felt better.

My entire body just changed. Congratulations. And my mother at 80 years old, she joined me back then. And within two months she was off her insulin. Mom was on insulin for seven years. She was diabetic for 15. And it just goes to show you, it was never, as you said, it was never my DNA. It was my dinner. We just the same dinner.

Paul Shapiro: No. [00:26:00] Well, congratulations both to you and to her, how's she doing now?

Eric Adams: She's doing well. You know, life is, you know, up years of eating some bad things, but she's doing well. And hopefully, you know, she deals with the challenge of that long diet. That's why it's important to start our young people off. To eat healthy and learn the habits.

So they won't be addicted to the food that we have, the junk food, the poisonous food.

Paul Shapiro: Now that you are the Brooklyn borough president Eric, and, you know, you're one of the highest elected officials who is in enjoying an espousing of plant based diet. What do you think can be done at the public policy level then after I also wanna ask you about at the private level, but at the public policy level to help encourage.

More plant-based eating. We've seen New York as a history, under Bloomberg with the soda ban. And so on of trying public health initiatives that did not end up succeeding in some ways. But what do you think that could be done to help encourage more? [00:27:00] Plant-based eating among new Yorkers and among Americans in general?

Eric Adams: That's a great question. Um, to me, I think it's important that we start on the grassroots level and what I mean by. Is to start in our educational system. We should start teaching our young people how to eat healthy, build it into the curriculum. You know, one apple plus one apple minus process meat equals health.

You know, let's be creative. Let's let's do the GE geography of food, food located, located. Let's use science to show the power of spice. What tumor does to, you know, a healthy environment, ginger sentiment, uh, nut bay. So we need to incorporate health into our schools and allow our children to live a healthy lifestyle.

Think about this. 70% of 12 year olds have early signs of heart disease. Our number one [00:28:00] killer that's unimaginable. This is not sustain. So the second thing we were successful here in the city to convince the mayor, to take process meat, outta schools, process meat is a type one carcinogen. Yet we serving it through our children.

Other type ones are cigarettes. And so, I mean, we don't give our children Marlborough every morning. So why are we giving them processed? Change our hospitals, our hospitals have to stop being a place of treating symptoms, but a place of reversing diseases. I have a program at Bellevue hospital where I may, we put in place with Dr.

Mackin. It's an amazing initiative. It's the first of this kind, a lifestyle medicine. And we've given people an option. If you go to the. You should be given an option. Do you want drugs for the rest of your life, or do you wanna try a lifestyle? Me medicine regimen that can reverse your disease instead of [00:29:00] hide your symptoms.

And it's unfortunate that many hospitals are not doing that. Bellevue has a great deal of success. We're looking to expand this throughout our would tie a city. Uh, so I think there's great opportunities to change healthcare as we know. As we talk about reform and policing, we need to talk about reforms in every part of our lives and go to the foundation that has been built on a terrible belief system.

And it's important to change that.

Paul Shapiro: Now we know what you want to do. If you were to be for example, uh, the mayor of New York, but what recommendations would you have Eric for companies that want to do better on this? Whether they be food companies or others, what would you recommend to folks in the private sector who share your goal of wanting to encourage more plant-based eating?

Uh, but they might not know what to do. What

Eric Adams: companies should do is speak about their bottom line, the amount of money you are losing as a company. With healthcare, 30 million Americans have [00:30:00] diabetes. 84 million are on deck waiting to get diabetes with prediabetes. We spend 80 cents on dollar in healthcare.

Healthcare costs is going cripple companies. So if you wanna bring down your healthcare, look at the food that you're serving in your cafeterias, into your employees of the amount of productivity that's lost, because someone is diagnosed with diabetes is going to impact your bottom. Also look at, think about gym membership, have spaces in the office where your employees can exercise and incorporate meditation and yoga into your plan.

Give stand desk. Like I give to all my staff here, allowing opportunity, uh, to focus on wellness, bring people in that can show them how to cook meals that are healthy and how to use alternative. Ways of flavoring and seasoning your food. And so companies should look at their employees as an investment [00:31:00] so that they know that if I make you healthy, your pro productivity is better.

Your lifestyle is better. You are happier employees. So it's important that we start investing in health and they can do it gradually. There's so much information out there. Where you can bring in experts that would give small half an hour, hour courses on healthy regimens and what you can do. Like Dr.

Gregory should be brought in to do a lecture. Dr. They have great programs that they lecture and give information to employees and other staff. I can't

Paul Shapiro: possibly agree with you more that Dr. Gregor should be giving more talks for these companies. I, I totally agree with you. So lemme just ask you Eric. As we wind down here, you have achieved a lot in your life.

You have not only become a police officer, but then a state Senator winning reelection time and time again, you are elected as Brooklyn borough, president reelected as Brooklyn borough president. You may end up becoming the mayor of, uh, this gigantic city, the biggest city in our country. [00:32:00] If there are people who look at you and they look at your success and they're thinking I wanna be more like him.

Are there any books or other resources that you would recommend to them to say, Hey, these were useful for me in my journey. And I'd recommend them to you

Eric Adams: book, book reader as well. Uh, one of the best books and series of books. That I read is drer the first one I read was you are the placebo. And then I started reading of the other books of how you, the way you think and how you change your life in the process. I'm Malcolm Gladwell guy, um, everything from outliers to tipping point.

He's a great writer and story. I enjoy his books. The goal is really to start appreciating this beautiful existence we are as human beings, and we don't do [00:33:00] that enough. We're far more than what we were told. We have to unlearn to learn of what the experience of being a human being is about. Unlearn, um, how to eat and what foods we should eat, unlearn, uh, how we communicate and become a better communicator.

So we can be a deep listener to seek to understand so we can be understood unlearn how we have loving relationships with our family. And how do we heal ourselves internally by doing things like yoga and meditation and doing internally self care. And so there's a whole process. The person who's in front of you now, or you're hearing is not the person I've always been.

I was like a caterpillar looking up at a butterfly. You'll never get me in one of those only to realize that I would go through my own cocoon and change. And eventually I would learn to really take flight and fly. And I think all of us have those caterpillar moments. We can all [00:34:00] get to that level. Well,

Paul Shapiro: Eric Adams, Brooklyn borough president.

You're certainly flying now. And we'll look forward to watching you as you continue to try to do good in the world, whether that is through continued elected office or otherwise. So thanks so much for your time. Thanks for everything that you're doing on so many important topics as the borough president, and we'll look forward to watching further success of yours.

All right.

Eric Adams: Thank you, Paul, take care. Appreciate you.

Paul Shapiro: Thanks for listening. We hope you found use in this episode. If so, don't keep it to yourself. Please leave us a five star rating on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. And as always, we hope you will be in the business of doing good.