Mighty Mycelium: Isabella Iglesias-Musachio and Bosque Foods

Paul Shapiro: Welcome friend to the 97th episode of the business for good podcast, because it's episode 97, as I've been saying in the last few episodes that we are going to have an episode 100, what a big deal. So many of you have sent in some pretty awesome suggestions for who you think should be. On that big episode, 100, and I appreciate your suggestions and keep 'em coming.

Feel free to reach out to me via the website business for good podcast.com. I'd love to hear your suggestion of how we can make that 100th episode truly spectacular, but before them, we still have a few more episodes to [00:01:00] go that are also going to be spectacular. And. Is one of them. If you've been listening to this show for some time, you know, that I am a fun guy.

And by that, I mean, F U NGI, since I am fanatic about using fungi to help save the world, not plants and not animals, fungi are an entirely separate kingdom of life and they can do some really amazing things. For example, two episodes ago, we heard from a startup called fungi that is seeking to implement fungal transplants in forests to enhance the carbon capturing capacity of the soil.

And you may know that my own company, the better meat co uses fungi fermentation to recreate the meat experience without animals. But BOS foods is putting fungi to work in a very different way, very different way. From what I do during my day job at the better Miko, they're not fermenting fungi and big stainless steel fermentors.

Like we do rather they are practicing what is called a solid state fermentation to create high protein foods that will be. Center of the plate items for sure, but they're not seeking to mimic meat per se. So think about something like, let's say tofu or [00:02:00] Tempe. These are foods that many people really enjoy.

They're high in protein they're center of the plate entrees, but they don't really necessarily mimic meat. They're just something that you would really like to have, and you might replace meat with it, but it's not identical in the experience to meet. That is what Bosch foods is seeking to do by using solid state fungi, fermentation to create these high protein center of the plate items.

They have now raised 3 million in venture capital and they're making products that at least from the photos that I see online, look Fung. Fantastic. In this episode, I sit down with Bosque food's CEO, Isabella EGUs Mustachio, and chat about her lifelong passion that started here on this path. We discussed all types of cool things, including what to call the product she's making, how she intends to upcycle.

Agricultural byproducts is a feed stock for her fungi, her pathway to commercialization and. Please note Isabella was recording from her lab. So you're likely to hear some background noise on her end, but rest assured it will not prevent you from hearing the insights that she has to offer. [00:03:00] So with that said, if you're interested in yet, one more way that fungi may save us, keep listening.

I think you will be inspired by Isabella's story. I know I was.

 Isabella welcome to the business for good podcast. Hi,

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Paul, how are you doing nice to be here?

Paul Shapiro: It is great to be talking with you, especially about a topic that I am extremely passionate about, which is my sill or the root like structure of fungi. And so you and I are in somewhat similar and somewhat similar boat as to running these startups that are trying to grow my soum.

So some people may have heard us talking on past episodes, for example, with Kimberly Lee, from prime roots about my sodium, but if they're not. They're not initiated and they don't even know anything about this topic. Why would somebody want to use fungi rather than plants to try to create protein products?

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Ooh, good question. Okay. Well there's a lot of reasons I think with fungi in particular working with fermentation, we can rapidly grow our ingredient, which is my [00:04:00] salium in a matter of days, as opposed to weeks or months for certain plant-based proteins and years in comparison to animals, of course.

So it's a, it's a very fast process for creating foods, but foods that are also extremely healthy. And it's also a, a rapid process, which allows us to have a very scalable mode of producing greater quantities of food in the future, which is also also of course important. Given the fact that our you know, human population is growing and there's gonna be.

A very high demand for, for foods and proteins in particular, in the future. So that's, you know, one or two reasons, but I think another reason if you'll allow me is, is really around the sustainability just in comparison to plant proteins in terms of the, you know, what land and water you need to actually grow those plant proteins.

You know, take P or, or soy. I love both of those. And I think the products that are made from them are, are great as well. However, there's still a footprint that it takes to actually grow those different products. And for example, you'll take a P or a [00:05:00] soy protein in order to get the protein isolate, you have to strip away so much of the actual being, for example, P, and that also has an energy footprint.

And so I think when I look at what we're doing and how we're using fungi fermentation to create a whole food ingredient, a single ingredient that can create that texture that allows us to kind of bypass some of the processing and even some of the energy and land and water. Trends that it takes to create plant-based products.

I think we have a major comp you know, advantage, but specifically from a sustainability standpoint. So I, we look at all of that when we're, when you know, when we've created this concept, we're trying to understand how can we really create future proof solutions for creating food in the future.

So quite redundant there .

Paul Shapiro: So how did you come across this? So, you know, you, you didn't, you don't have a history of being like a food industry, entrepreneur. You're not a, a psychologist. Like, what is your background that you thought, Hey, I'm the one to start on my Siam company here. [00:06:00]

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah. So I studied sustainable agriculture in university, which meant that I, I was also studying animal agriculture and you know, all, not only that, but also monoculture how food is produced particularly in the United States book globally.

And how. Some of those inefficiencies or even just the issues with how we're producing food are linked to issues of climate change. Right. So I learned from a very young age you know, at the age of 16, when I started my, my studies in university you know, these types of problems and became pre passionate about it and became a vegetarian at that point.

So I think it was that moment where. This interest and this passion for food, for how we cultivate food for the issues that are related to our food system, became a pretty you know, integral part of my life and what I'm, what I, what I'm passionate about. It's also at this point where I became quite passionate about how to transform food and turn it into really amazing things through fermentation.

So I started playing with fermentation, you know, about 12 years [00:07:00] ago and I haven't stopped. And along the way, I started working with fungi as well. You know, just amateur style, but some things I took much more to a professional level. Was also gonna start another fermentation company or two actually prior to BOS.

But really I think it took me those two iterations to get to an idea that was more, it was very ambitious, I think for me, because like you said, I'm not a mycologist. But one, the one that was actually the idea, I was the most passionate about. And so I'd say, you know, I ended up having as a passion side hobby you know, a lot of experience working with fermentation and working with different types of fungi or bacteria, growing them and cultivating different type of food products with them.

But that was always on the side because my, my educational background and my career. Drove me in a different direction, which was working to create tech startups and, and scale ups. So yeah, that was E eventually became part of a why Bosque became Bosque. Cuz I got this experience in how to build companies in different regions.

So in the us and Europe [00:08:00] and in Asia. But I think the idea for Bosque and working with fermentation. Specifically cultivating fungi in a particular way for a, you know, plant based or, you know, not even plant based a vegan food product is really very much linked to kind of like a lifelong passion.

Paul Shapiro: Mm-hmm all right. So first I wanna say, you know, in the last episode we had on the founder of a company called fungo, which is basically doing fungal transplants to try to heal depleted agricultural limb. And he's a European and his name is Colin AAL. And, you know, he would say fungi. And I would say fungi now I noticed that you were saying fungi when I'm saying fungi and fungi, I know is kind of sounds like a European way maybe to say it like a British way to say it, but you're not British.

You're an American. So have you been living in Europe for so long that you're now saying fungi?

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: I think I think my I think, yes, my brain is probably confused and I don't even know which way is best to pronounce it. I've lived in maybe too many different places at this point. I think, I [00:09:00] think I must have picked it up from maybe listening to British people say,

Paul Shapiro: it, it, it deprives, it deprives the listener of fun guy at jokes though, of which there are so.

That if you have fungi, there's really not that many jokes. Maybe you could do something about if you're in India and make, talk about GE, but otherwise you're just are depriving a great joke. So I'm gonna make the recommendation, but you do as you please, I'm just making recommendation.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah, I'm gonna switch it.

I'm gonna switch it to fungi for this show.

Paul Shapiro: Very good. Very good. We'll see how long it lasts. Okay. So you were already like, kind of in the tech startup, know you, so to speak and, and so it wasn't so foreign to you, the idea that you might actually start a company. So when you decided to take that plunge, what were you quitting?

Like you left something else and then you decided actually I'm gonna decide to found my own company here, which at the time was Conoco labs. And we can talk about what, what that meant and why you changed the name, but first, like what did you leave? What's the life that you left? Yeah.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah. I guess it was more [00:10:00] working.

And very much like more tech focused as opposed to really biotech focus. Right. So I think there's a very drastic difference between what we're working on here at Bosque in comparison to the types of tech companies I worked for in the past. But there's a little bit of a in between I'd say with farm.

So I worked right before starting BOS and at a company called farm, which is also a Berlin. Startup, but it has operations all over the world. And yeah, what I was doing there was what I had done for other startups prior to that, which was to help them build and maybe scale their operations to new markets.

So long story short, I mean, the, my work at uh, in farm was, was a really perfect combination of what I studied, which was sustainable agriculture and the type of skills I had built up. With previous startups where I helped them either build completely fresh operations in a new market or scale their operations to to other markets as well.

So what that involved for me was joining in farm at the time and expanding their [00:11:00] operations to the us and Canada and Japan. And yeah, it was a great experience, but I, you know, For me, by the time I was ready to start Bosque, I wasn't worried about what I was giving up. I think I was more worried about if I didn't start Bosque, what would I be giving up?

Yeah, so, so I think there was no there's no sense of kind of I would say sacrifice in, in. Giving up on the work I was doing previously, you know, there's still a bit of fear when you take that leap into working on a, on a really hard project. But it was something that I was very ready for.

Yeah.

Paul Shapiro: Yeah. Well, we can talk about that type of fear in, in a little bit, since I, you know, it's something that I think about a lot to what, what it feels like to have this entire company really resting on your shoulders. Mm-hmm and obviously there's, there's other people whose shoulders it's resting on as well.

But as the, as the CEO, there is a, a special kind of rest that it is doing on you. For sure. Yeah. But so why Conoco? What, what does Conoco mean? First of all, and then why do you. Changing your name? The [00:12:00] company's only been around for like two years. So why what's the first name mean and why the.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah, sure.

So the first name Keyoko is the Japanese word for fungi or mushrooms. It has actually happens a few meanings in Japanese and this was the result of one. I actually, I love the name. I think it's, it's really fun, but we, we got into a competition, so the vegan women summit competition, and we had to come up with a name within one day we, we hadn't had a name prior to that.

So I guess this. Two years ago now had just started. And I was pitching at that point, just an idea. And we got into the finalist round with, with that idea. And so upon, you know, being chosen as a finalist, then we, we had to give over a lot of information that would go public and we hadn't.

Actually nailed down a name then. So brainstormed with some people. And at that time I was very deep into firm Japanese fermentation. So I was experimenting a lot with Koji, you know, making, you know, your, your misos and AZA [00:13:00] and, and soy sauce and so on. So yeah, it was just uh, Something that, or linked to, I guess like why I was passionate about I would say fermentation and, and fungi in particular at that point.

So anyway, long story short, that's where the name came from. Why we switched. It was, there was a few things One was, will that name really relate to a broader audience or is that going to maybe like ostracize maybe an American audience or, or maybe a German audience that doesn't really can't doesn't understand the name perhaps.

And there was also less, so the Keynotek part, but also the labs part. Right? So. We're a food company. We're creating food products. And you know, at the end of the day, although we are working with biotechnology and microbiology and we all love working, we love our lab here. It may not be the most consumer friendly term, so we knew it would be eventually rebranding to something that was more.

Consumer friendly and food focused. And so that is those are a few reasons why like [00:14:00] BOS became the name and specifically Bosque

Paul Shapiro: foods. Yeah. Mm-hmm cool. And are you aware that there is an Israeli food fermentation company called Conoco also?

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yes. And there's also the, the fact that there's a Keyoko tech.

So yes, Conoco tech. Yeah. They're working on, I guess like Tempe products, but there was confusion around like, you know, are you guys related? And we're like, no, we're not related and we're gonna change the name anyway. So it it'll avoid that

Paul Shapiro: confusion. Yeah, I've talked with their CEO, her, her name is Daria Feldman before.

And it's pretty interesting what they're doing. They're not really making a meat alternative, but they're making essentially, I wouldn't say new types of Tempe, but it's kind of like that type of a technology. It's, it's not so much bio biotech. It's my understanding. As much as it's more traditional fermentation to create these kind of interesting novel new foods.

Don't really mimic meat, but that are high end protein and, and tasty. I I've never had them, but their photos look good.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah. Yeah, no, exactly. That's what I, I saw as [00:15:00] well. I think yeah, different types of Tempe, maybe expanding, expanding the boundaries there. I, I think almost maybe similar to like, Better nature in a way.

But yeah, I, I saw that they also had a keynote go in their name. So at some point we, we were bound to change.

Paul Shapiro: yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Well, so let me ask you, then let's just. Like get to the meat or maybe to the MyUM of the, of the matter here, Isabella, like what are you actually making? Mm-hmm you're growing MyUM okay.

Well, we, you know, we had on Kimberly Lee, she's growing my sodium too, but she's doing a very different way. Mm-hmm from what you're doing and what we're doing at the better Miko is very different from what you're doing. So you've chosen to go the route of not using large steel fermentors, but instead, essentially doing what's called solid state fermentation.

So tell us what. And why would you do it? Yeah, sure.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: All right. So solid state fermentation is in comparison to, as you've mentioned liquid state fermentation, when you're working with solid substrate, you're working with different types of tools and [00:16:00] technology for you, you know, producing your Meils.

So different growing environments and you produce a different type of MEIC as well. So in a nutshell, I mean, you can think of, you know, what's a solid substrate. You can use a lot of different types of biomass or biomaterial to act as a substrate. What we use are in the, in the ideal sense are upcycled side streams from agri food producers.

So. What could that be? You could think of essentially any byproduct from the serial grain industry and why that is actually quite key and important is because that's one reason we are very attracted to using this method. We can upcycle essentially residues from other industries, thereby making the process and circular or more circular than, than if we were just using, you know, standard commodity inputs.

Paul Shapiro: Right. So you mentioned that that's what you do in an ideal sense. Mm-hmm so is that more aspirational or is that what you are doing

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: now? It's what we're doing now, but [00:17:00] it's also, you know, I think the reason I say that is because oftentimes whenever we say that we're working with side streams, we're, you know, the first question we get is.

How are you gonna lock in that supply chain, you know, in a, in a world where everybody wants to upcycle side streams. And so it's something that I kind of already just preempt with how I answer it, but it's what we're doing now. And it's what we want to continue doing. But there is that key. Question of how do you secure those supply chains and how do you maintain how do, how do you say it's a consistency across the side streams that you're using because that's one of the issues.

So you're, you're encountering another set of challenges when you work with side streams. And if you were just. Buying maybe like your typical off the shelf. I dunno, whatever other substrate you want to use instead. Right. So there's, there's that reason. Oh, sorry. Go on Paul. What were you gonna.

Paul Shapiro: When we're talking Isabella about substrate, it's basically a fancy way of saying a feed stock for the fungi. So if you think about like you're raising animals for food, you have to grow corn or soy or [00:18:00] whatever, you're gonna be feeding them so that they can grow well, the fungi have to eat as well.

And so you can feed them things and. Other companies, like, for example, at last what's now my forest for their bacon. They grow my sodium in a solid state and they're essentially feeding it. Sawdust is what they claim that they are feeding it. You are saying that you don't have to go out and just buy new products on the market, but rather that you can buy ingredients that are, you know, essentially valueless that are like side streams from.

Let's say the serial grains industry, like you mentioned. And so my question for you is that you think that's scalable. You think that you can get like a non-variable non-seasonal supply where you could be, you know, enable yourself to scale up, to be able to produce, let's say tens or hundreds of millions of pounds of my cilium with that type of a system.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah. Okay. So thanks. you can hear you now. I, I think you will, of course find challenges when you're working with side streams, but I don't think that that doesn't mean. Scalable. There are industries that are producing. [00:19:00] Enormous quantities of byproducts from their own production processes. And they, they, they have an enormous output that we can use as our feed stock.

So I, I don't think that that actually challenges the scalability. I think the, the challenges are more in maybe consistency or variability, but I think that thanks to our process. Being quite versatile, meaning we can work with many different side streams. Actually with the, with the strains that we work with with our fermentation process, that allows us a little bit more leeway.

So long story short, there are challenges that you'll face. No matter what, if you're working with side streams, but scalability, I don't think is the problem as long as you lock in your supply chain. So the question is, can you lock in your supply chain? Partners. Right. And so for me, my, my answer to that is, of course it has to be within your strategy and you need to be very forward thinking and you need to be making the right connections and partners with [00:20:00] producers who can actually be delivering the type of substrate and the quantities that you need as you scale.

Paul Shapiro: mm-hmm okay, cool. And so are you utilizing like common mushroom MyUM like mushrooms that we already eat and you're just growing the roots or are you using like filamentous fungi that don't really produce mushrooms? Like, what is the strategy for you here? You got some companies like at last, which are utilizing like oyster mushroom MEIC then you've got other companies let's say like pram roots, which are not using mushrooms at all.

They're using things like Asper, Joe S RZA. To grow in a more filamentous way. So what's the strategy for Bosque.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah. Yeah. So we've worked with a range of Def of different fungi going from filamentous to like the, like, you know, different molds for example, but we have also worked with mushroom strains.

And so there's a bit, I can't say about our process. We can, we can go into more questions and see what I can, but we can't go into actually the strains that we're working with today. Of course, like there's certain things that we're still [00:21:00] protecting and are proprietary. But you can actually think of us using a bit of both in our process.

And we've worked with both in the past.

Paul Shapiro: sure. And I, I, I read that you will be seeking regulatory approval both in the us and the EU. So what will that entail? Like when do you anticipate seeking to, you know, for example, get generally recognized as safe status in the us, or maybe in the EU novel food space?

Like what's that horizon look like for you all now? Yeah.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah. I mean, you probably know the process takes a very long time, especially in. Mm-hmm so the process can take anywhere between 18 30, 6 months, maybe longer, depending on you know, the, the species you're working with or the, the process that you're working with as well.

For us, we think that we would be within probably like 18 to 22 month range for the EU. But the us, the process is now taking a bit longer, I think, because the amount of applicants who are. Seeking regulatory approval. So I think they're saying, you know, between 12 and 15 months so yeah, it takes a while.

It is what it is, but we're, we're starting [00:22:00] that process. We've already started that process. So we're, we're in the queue for, for regions, you know, there, and maybe even beyond we, we have to see, we have, you know, pretty high ambitions for, for where we wanna take cost. But yeah, for those two markets, that's the time.

Paul Shapiro: Okay. So let me ask you then, if, if you aren't, if you may not have regulatory approval, let's say for, like you say, like, you know, one and a half to two years, let's just hear about the products that you will be bringing to market then. So what are these products that you're making they're primarily made of MyUM the photos look absolutely St or I can't wait to try them myself.

But you've said that you don't necessarily want to create something that is a replica for animal meat. So what is it that you're trying to create? Yeah, we're, we're trying

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: to create center of the plate replacements, right? So I think it's. It's a fine line that you actually need to, to balance because no, we don't want to work with GMOs and create a neat alternative that, that bleeds, because I think not [00:23:00] all consumers want that.

And we also know that consumers don't always want something that. Says or, you know, claims to be like meat because the moment that they try it, they're maybe instantly disappointed. Right. On the other hand, if you're trying to create something completely new, then you, you're kind of going into this unknown territory.

So I understand why so many companies anchor themselves to meet products because it gives consumers something to relate to, right. Something to actually anchor themselves onto saying, okay, this is supposed to. This for us. And for, for us, we're kind of straddling the line. I'd say between those two concepts, we're, we're wanting to create a staple, a product that consumers feel good about eating every day or, you know, multiple times a week, if they don't wanna eat it every day.

We understand that we're going after flexitarians who have an extremely varied diet, right? They may eat meat. They may tofu may. They may just want to eat vegetables and we wanna create an alternative that they can also [00:24:00] add into their diet. On a regular basis. And we also realize that consumers don't actually feel comfortable about doing that with a lot of the alternatives that are on the shelf today.

Right. So we're trying to create products that can replace meat for them as a center of the plate option. So what would that resonate for them? It sometimes they'll think of it as a, a filet and we're creating different flavor profiles that are that. I would say kind of resonance of certain types of meat.

But we, as you mentioned, we have quite a while before we're gonna be able to get on the market and be putting our products in front of consumers. So we're, we're still developing our flavor profiles. We're developing different types of products and we're gonna be testing those with consumers and really honing our product to make sure that we're creating something that's consumer centric.

And that is something consumers are demanding that they actually. Really like, and want. So as much as I wish we could be, you know, bringing our product to market right away. I think this time [00:25:00] actually gives us the opportunity to create a product that is really meeting people's needs. Yeah.

Paul Shapiro: So you don't intend to market them as, you know, like plant or fungi based chicken nuggets or hamburgers, or, you know, sausages.

They would be something that would be, let's say more akin to tofu or Tempe, which is something that many people enjoy eating, but they don't expect that at all. Tastes like a hamburger or a chicken nugget.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah, we're gonna be, you know, I think more in that direction because, but we're obviously we don't wanna call ourselves tofu or Tempe either.

It's gonna be, yeah,

Paul Shapiro: yeah. Course I wasn't suggesting that. Yeah. I was suggesting that you would be a tofu replacement. I, I just mean something that is a high protein center of the plate item that doesn't really try to say, Hey, I'm a chicken nugget I'm just made out of plants. This is not gonna be labeled as a chicken nugget or a hamburger or a sausage or a meatball.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Is that right? Yeah, exactly. Like it's something that is a more of a high protein center of the plate [00:26:00] replacement. Yeah. It's also, you know, it's interesting, you ask like, well, we call it chicken or would you call it what the actual meat name? And as you know, in certain regions, you're not even able to do that.

Right. So in those particular regions, I, I think France is the most recent one. Barred companies from using the, the animal names in their products. You know, those companies are gonna actually be forced to, to think about how they, how they actually represent themselves to consumers. Just because of the demands.

Yeah.

Paul Shapiro: yeah, it it's, it's an interesting question because do consumers care about the name? Like, you know, nobody's buying, let's say, you know, soy milk, thinking that it comes from a cow, nobody buys almond milk or coconut milk. And so if it were labeled something else, like even if it were called almond drink or almond beverage, It maybe doesn't sound as good.

And I, I certainly am opposed obviously to these type of censorship laws, but how much does it hurt? Mm, yeah. Like, you know, like nobody's buying it, thinking that it's cow's milk anyway. Exactly. Does it sound so anyway, I [00:27:00] don't know. I don't know the answer I'm, I'm, I'm not asking rhetorically. I really don't know the answer, but I, I do wonder how much it really is going to matter in the end.

I think we should oppose these laws. I think the protectionist, but. In the end, if something tastes great and is cost effective, will it really make a difference? I don't

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: know. Yeah, exactly. I, I think the, the way that it could actually be maybe a barrier or friction point for consumers is if they are just confused, right?

Because consumers make a, a decision on their purchases within a fraction of a second. Right. So if they can't resonate or they can't understand what are the products that are in front of them, that's when it becomes a problem. And that would be my main. Point of concern for any company that has to kind of decide how they represent themselves.

I think that's the only concern and the worry that you have, but we're of course gonna need to be doing our own testing with consumers. And we'd be doing that prior to launching of course. Yeah.

Paul Shapiro: cool. So the company has raised some money now. You all, you know, [00:28:00] started out just a couple years ago as an idea in your head, and now you've raised more than 3 million for Bosque so far.

So how many folks do you have now working there and what are they doing? Yeah,

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: sure. So we're 12 person team at the moment and yeah, we've got an amazing group of mostly scientists. So I'd say the majority of the team. Bio technologists microbiologists. So got backgrounds in usually studies in biotechnology, particularly quite a few with an expert piece in the use of agro industrial side streams for Some of them, even the production of meat alternatives in particular working with Philis uh, fungi.

So fun fungi so yeah, that's

Paul Shapiro: a big, you, you know, you, you read a fungi stuff earlier. I didn't wanna bring attention to it, but now that you've, now that you've explicitly brought it up, I'll say, thank you. Thank you for for making that, that Americanization correction.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: You're doing my best, doing my best.

So, so I'd say we have quite a few team members with that type of background. So they're the ones who are working on our fermentation process. Improving that and optimizing where we want to. And then we also have a [00:29:00] product development team. So of course we've got food scientists, food technologists process technologists.

So those are, are wonderful folks who are working on creating really delicious products out of our ILI. And then beyond that we've grown also to have more. Business and marketing and experts on the team. So mostly coming from, you know, MBA backgrounds and things like

Paul Shapiro: that. Mm-hmm yeah. Let me ask you a provocative question.

Let's say I was an investor and I was thinking about investing and I say, Hey, listen, you're not gonna be on the market for another year or two. What do you need sales people for?

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Well, I think they're not necessarily only working. Sales right now. So there's, there's a ton to do, I think, in terms of being strategic on your go to market, your commercialization, your marketing strategy, your branding strategy, because I think one thing, for example, that's a difference between us and better meat co is that we're creating products that are gonna be consumer facing, right?

So we're creating a brand which is very expensive and involves [00:30:00] a lot of work and strategy to make sure that we execute. Very well. Right. And then we also have, as you mentioned regulatory hurdles, which means that we need to decide where we go to market when we go to market in different regions and how we enter them.

And I think there's a ton of research and strategy that goes into that to make sure that again, That money is being spent in the best way possible. So you know, we, we don't have a, a, I would say the minority of the company are the business people at the moment. And it's because of course we're not going into sales right away, but it does deserve some very, very good experts at this stage to start planning for where we wanna be a year from now.

So yeah. Cool. Yeah.

Paul Shapiro: What do you wanna call it? Like you have folks who are thinking about how you wanna be positioned in the market. Like, do you want to be called plant based even though it's made from fungi and not plants? You know, you got some companies in this space are calling it MyUM, others are calling it Myprotein others are.

Calling it mushroom roots I've even seen which seems, [00:31:00] seems maybe misleading because they're not mushrooms. They're growing. Let uh, let alone the roots of a mushroom. But like, what do you think? Like, what's the, what's the best thing that you want to be known as, as your main

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: ingredient? It's a good question.

I think it it's gonna depend like each company. What works for them best. We're not gonna call ourselves Myprotein because we're not specifically, you know, cultivating our MyUM for protein. We're cultivating it as a whole food ingredient. Right. And so our products would be labeled as likely something more along the mushroom base.

It, it really depends on. How much of the, you know, certain strains that we're working with are gonna end up in the type of product that we're marketing or we're deciding a name for at that point? I think my salium is something that consumers are likely not gonna be able to relate to because most of them don't know you know, as much about my SI and, and fungi as we do.

So that's, I think that may kind of. Perhaps ostracize some consumers and that's not what we, we wanna do. Right. We wanna create something that is [00:32:00] relatable. And so I, I think it really depends for each company. What are they actually working with? And, you know, how can you very openly and transparently communicate what your, what your ingredients are?

So transparency is something that's extremely important to us as a company. We are, you know, we're working on our websites and our product claims for example, with the idea that we want to be educating consumers about our product, our process, how we're creating it, why we're creating it. And so.

You know, no matter what we call it, we are, we're gonna be educating consumers anyway, to explain really specifically what, what it is that they're what they, it is that they have in front of them. And I think I would probably not go down the line of using my salium mostly just because or my Myprotein cuz that may really one mislead consumers on the micro protein front or just, you know, lose consumers if they don't really know what that.

Paul Shapiro: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I, I, when I say when I use [00:33:00] Myprotein, I, a lot of the times, I think people believe I'm saying small protein, like Myprotein okay in that they, they don't necessarily get it. I will say of course, corn that is Q urn is, is growing a whole food ingredient from fusarium Ben and Adam.

They call it a Myprotein and I don't know whether they've done extensive research on this or not. But it's an interesting question because usually when you call something a protein, you're talking about like a protein is isolate soy protein or P protein. Whereas my sodium is a whole food and the same as, so with corn.

But they, for some reason have, have settled on Myprotein. I do wanna ask you, what do you think about the F word Isabella? Do you think people want fungi? Do you think that fungi, I mean, there's obviously like a group of us fungi, fanatics who are into it, but do the general consumer, do you think that's good or bad?

Yeah,

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: exactly. So that's why yeah, I exactly, just to, just to answer your point about corn and I, I agree. I mean, they are also growing my slim and. A similar way as everyone working with liquid state is working with maybe they went for Myprotein because it would come across [00:34:00] as you know, conveying the health benefits, right.

That go along with consuming MyUM. But who knows? We have to talk with somebody at corn for the word fungi or fungi. I think. I think it would turn off certain consumers. And I think if you, depending on the type of funky that you're working, sorry, I keep doing this depending on the type of fungi you're working with, then you can also use the word or the term mushroom, right?

If you're working with a mold strain, then I would not work with I wouldn't of course, call it represent yourself as as a mushroom strain because that's misleading and corn got into

Paul Shapiro: with that. And. . Yeah. Yeah. And you probably don't wanna call it mold either. So you know, the yeah, my experience has been that the worst word that you can use is fungal mm-hmm

And then fungus is pretty bad also. And fungi is like, The least bad of the F words there. And so I think a lot of the, a lot of the folks now just to say fungi, or maybe they'll say fungi, if they're British but they but it's tough. [00:35:00] And you know, people don't really know what MyUM is, and obviously Myprotein is heavily associated with corn.

And so if you're not using that particular strain of my soum, you know, will people think. All Myprotein is one strain is, I don't know. But it's an interesting question. And it makes me think that there ought to be like some type of research that is maybe jointly. Maybe the good food Institute does this or provi, or one of the other groups does this research, or even the groups, even the companies in this space might wanna pull some money together to do some research into by geography.

Like what people think of all these terms. And so we, we know that people like plant based plant-based sounds you know, attractive and that's why it's commonly used. And so maybe it's better just to call it plant based. I mean, I, I don't know. I mean, they're not biologically plants, but I doubt that anyone thinks it's misleading.

Like if you go to a restaurant and they serve a porta Bevo burger and they tell you that that's, you know, their plant based option, like nobody thinks that's false

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: advertising. Yeah. I, I agree. I mean, I don't get to bend outta shape about calling it plant based or the fact that most [00:36:00] people think that we are plant based.

Right. I, I think it's fine if that's, what is, you know, if that's what consumers perceive and that's something that they can understand our product by then, that's fine. You know, it's, it doesn't offend me that they're not, you know, that they think it may be plants. And if we're working with Fun guy, but it is of course I think for the people in the, in the industry or the people who are like the scientists working on this, of course they're, there may be gonna wins a little bit, but yeah, it's not the end of the time.

Paul Shapiro: yeah. Yeah. I, I I'm in concert with you here is Isabella. So let me ask you, you have gone from having this idea. To now having millions of dollars at your disposal that you've raised from investors who think that you're gonna make a big dent in the marketplace, obviously. So has there been anything that has been useful for you Isabella and your own journey over the past couple years that you've thought, oh, I'm so glad that I read this or I heard this or that you would recommend to other people who may want to try to make an impact in the market themselves?

Yeah, I

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: [00:37:00] mean, I think, you know, what was something that I did for a very long. Leading up to starting Voss and that I have no time to do anymore. I listen to a podcast and pretty much won quite religiously which is how I built this. I thought you were gonna

Paul Shapiro: say business for good. Yeah.

And of course, business for good, very religiously, obviously.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yes. Well now I will, now I will, I I'll make time for this one. Of course. But the one I, I listened to for, for years and years, it was really. I think something I did quite religiously was listen to how I built this because I kept looking for stories of entrepreneurs who had gone through similar paths as me, or maybe that I could resonate with or maybe even see parts of myself and who had succeeded and who had, you know, maybe.

Not have the background or not started with a, a crazy network or, or you know, had the education that they, that, you know, typically would lead you into that type of path. [00:38:00] And we're still able to, to develop their businesses. So and. Really learning about the challenges also that they faced along the way and how, how at those points of maybe the lowest points or the ones that were the most difficult, how they actually overcame those challenges.

Those were stories that I, I listened to for a very long time. And I, I really, really loved that podcast for that reason. Cuz I think that was a really important step of me kind of looking for stories that I could. Potentially see myself in and then, you know, through that act, gaining confidence to take that leap myself.

So I highly recommend that podcast. And of course this wonderful podcast here

Paul Shapiro: okay. You know, I, I like how I built this too. I think it's a great podcast and I've, I've really enjoyed listening to it. Yeah. In fact so I, I, I wrote this book called queen meet and that writing that book had the similar impact on me that you listening to how I built this was because I was writing about these people who had started their own companies.

And it became queer to me [00:39:00] that they were mere mortals like me as well. And so like, even if you think about like perfect day, who we've had on this show before, you know, these are two guys who were both like 22 years old, they never even met in person. They just met on some online video chats and they had this idea that they thought that they could make dairy proteins without cows.

And you fast forward to today and their company, their last round was valued at 1.5 billion. They have products in the market and they're actually doing it. And these are guys who, you know, clearly had less experience than almost anybody who's starting companies. And if they could do it. Why couldn't I, or others in this space.

Maybe, maybe somebody listening to this show right now. And so, you know, I, if you don't have an MBA or you don't have millions of dollars to invest, or you're not a microbiologist or a PhD food scientist, it doesn't mean that you can't go out and start a company and try to make a big difference in the world.

So many people out there who don't have those type of pedigreed prestigious, Credentials [00:40:00] who are actually running pretty successful companies, cuz they have surrounded themselves with many people who are really smart. And that's how I feel like I've been able to keep the better muco advancing for four years is just by hiring people who are a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than I am honestly.

So yes I. Yeah. So I feel you on that. So, Isabella, if there are people who want to do that, who want to go out and start their own companies, maybe they'll be inspired by you on this show to do that. Are there any things that you think that they might want to consider? Like any ideas that you think, Hey, I'm not doing that, but I hope that somebody else will

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: well I feel like so many of the ideas that I had like a few years ago are already starting to be created, which is something I'm I'm so.

To see, I mean, people taking on seafood as products, which are extremely challenging, whether it be through fermentation, which I I'm quite excited to see now I'm always a proponent of seeing more fermentation based companies working with fungi and particularly tackling other products.

Paul Shapiro: So [00:41:00] yeah, you, yeah.

Yeah. You and me both. Yeah. We, we had Anne Palomo from aquacultured foods on, on the show as well, and she regaled us with the details of her solid state fermentation to make seafood alternatives. It was pretty cool.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: Yeah. Yeah, no. So I mean, exactly companies just like that. I I'm already, you know, those are ideas that I would've loved to tackle as well, but you know, to see other people doing it.

Cool. All right. Go for it. And I think ones that are completely outside of the food system that I'd like to see more of is, is really just in kind of the maybe carbon sequestration or carbon capture. So more of the climate tech ideas that I think are very, very interesting right now, but ones that are lower tech and more economically viable.

I think that's something that is a big challenge right now for, for a lot of climate tech solutions. And I think there's maybe some, some lower tech ideas or ones that can be maybe less CapEx intensive but can still make a dent in one of the many ways that we need to in order to address climate change.

So [00:42:00] those are ideas. There's, I mean, so many out there, but I think even ones that are you know, some of our team members have worked on in the past related to biochar that I think. Are really fantastic. So, you know, I, if I could clone myself, I would work on a, a million different projects at the same time.

But if somebody else does it, that's just as good. .

Paul Shapiro: Or in my case, if somebody else does it, it might even be better. Exactly. So for those who aren't familiar am, am I correct? That biochar is just a fancy way of saying human feces. Is that that's what biochar is? No, not necessarily.

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: I mean, maybe, maybe that's one definition, but the, the definition I'm more familiar with is like, If you take residue from the, from forests essentially.

So like what a lot of the forestry departments does, which is collecting that Forester residue. And then I think it's izing it through, through like a heating process that actually turns it into a char, but also captures the, the carbon within it. Then you're able to. In a cheap and relat relatively low tech way actually create a a [00:43:00] biomaterial that can be then used in a lot of different industries.

And I see it in, you know, in some design and some building and some just various biomaterials, but I think it's a smart kind of low tech way to yeah. To, to be able to at. Tackle climate change in one way. And that's not the one idea, but those types of technologies. Yeah. I think are so interesting and, and I really love seeing more of those being tackled today.

Paul Shapiro: Yeah, very cool. Well, I will say so. I heard of the human feces biochar from a friend of mine. Nate SA Peter who runs with his wife runs animal sanctuary called sweet farm and he's super into this. And he even pointed me to an article in the journal nature where they talk about how they could use basically human sewage, like literally from the sewer as a basically view it as like this underutilized resource that's.

Rich and nutrients and carbon, and that you could divert a lot of sewage solids and produce biochar by thermal conversion and sealed container. So it's a pretty cool idea. So maybe somebody will go ahead and, and, and, and try to do that. That would be pretty awesome. And if you do, please let [00:44:00] us know, cuz you will definitely be on this show.

Amazing. . Yes. Yeah, you, nobody will wanna miss that one. All right, Isabella, I really am glad for what you're doing at Bosque. I can't wait to try some of your fungi. My cilium mushroom root Myprotein, whatever you wanna call it, products that will not be hamburgers and chicken nuggets, but will be called something else that your brainiac team will come up with.

And I can't wait to try it. And I'm looking forward to seeing your products come onto the market as well. Well,

Isabella Iglesias-Musachio: thank you so much. Been a pleasure as always to chat and thanks so much for having me on this wonderful podcast. I had a really good time.