From Seafood to Seaweed: Monica Talbert and the Plant-Based Seafood Co.

Monica Talbert: [00:00:00] We didn't go out looking for plant-based seafood. Plant-based seafood found us.

Paul Shapiro: Welcome to the Business for Good podcast to show where we spotlight companies making money by making the world a better place. I'm your host, Paul Shapiro, and if you share a passion for using commerce to solve many of the world's most pressing problems than this is the show for you.

Hello friends, and welcome to episode 64 of the Business for Good podcast. We got a great response to the last episode with Joanne Rodriguez and a number of listeners even directly invested in her company. My Cycle, which if you haven't yet listened, is taking landfill trash and subjecting it to a maum fermentation to render it harmless or even valuable.

So if you didn't get to check it out yet, be sure to go listen to Joanne's story. I know I was certainly impressed. And if you too, like being impressed, you are going to love this episode because Monica Talbert will give you hope for the future of our oceans. Monica was born into the seafood industry and for years has been running her family business.

Banque Eve's seafood from the eastern shore of [00:01:00] Virginia. As you'll hear in this conversation though, a series of events let her to start experimenting with plant-based seafood recipes. And while it's no longer major news for conventional meat companies to develop plant-based lines, since so many are now admirably, already doing that.

Monica announces in this episode something far more inspirational. What started as a supplemental form of business has now become a passion for Monica so much that she's personally essentially gone plant based and announces in this episode that she's shutting down the legacy conventional seafood side of her business entirely.

To focus exclusively on growing the plant-based seafood co. If anything, they might keep Van Cleave seafood around, but rebrand it as Van Cleaves. Seaweed selling, as you can guess, delicious sea vegetable products, which I certainly will be an avid consumer of when they do that. So the. Right now the plant-based Seafood Co is winning innovation awards, earning investment from venture capital funds, and it's rolling out its products nationwide as we speak.

Monica's goal is to grow it, not just to be as big as Banque as seafood, but to [00:02:00] go much bigger and produce enough sustainable seafood, i e plant-based seafood to feed the world and save the oceans in the process. So enjoy this riveting conversation with a real entrepreneurial pioneer who will give you hope that not only can individuals change, but so to can business.

Monica, welcome to the Business for Good podcast. Ah, thank

Monica Talbert: you so much Paul. It's an honor to be here.

Paul Shapiro: Hey, it's my pleasure. I've been following your story for, for it feels like some time now, and I'm super impressed by what you're doing. So I'm really excited to have you on the show to talk all about it.

But before we talk about the really cool things that you're doing with the Plant-based Seafood Co, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs, they start off as in this space. They start out as people who have, you know, like got their long time. Vegans or they are, you know, coming out of like the animal welfare or the sustainability world.

Um, that's not where you're coming from. You didn't start out from that way. You, you are coming from the seafood industry. So tell me just a little bit about your background in the seafood industry and then after that we can get [00:03:00] into more about what you're doing now, but how long have you been in the seafood industry?

What have you been doing in it? Tell me. Yeah, so we

Monica Talbert: always say, you know, we, we get that question a lot of, of how we got into plant-based seafood. And we, I say, You know, we didn't go out looking for plant-based seafood. Plant-based seafood found us. And, um, you know, I'll, I'll give you a little bit of background to, to kind of give some context by, by what I mean by that.

Um, so we started off, as you know, we're all female family owned company. We started off, back in 2001. My mom started at a tiny little crab shack. Um, you know, we're from the Virginia, Maryland area where, you know, blue crab culture is king and. And so we, we ran that for a while and just really focused on quality and a consumer experience that I think was a bit novel to the seafood industry.

Maybe it's because we were all women. I'm not sure. We, we just gave it a different twist and, um, [00:04:00] you know, we. We grew into a larger seafood market. We sold over three d 300 different varieties of seafood and added on a restaurant and, and a retail gift store. And we really, we loved, you know, the industry that we, we were in and we loved our suppliers.

We even vacationed, you know, with our crabs. And, uh, we knew the watermen, we knew the area. Were right there on the, on the Chesapeake Bay where we pulled in. A lot of, you know, the products that we sold to consumer. Um, we loved our customers. Our customers were, were like family. And you know, like I said, we, we did things differently.

So, you know, you would walk into our, our seafood market and normally you would be used to, you know, a, a big, big guy named Bubba, Smoking a, you know, a cigar ATO with his, you know, his, his pit bull right there. And, um, we were just different. Uh, you walked in and you heard Caribbean music and, and we had service with a smile.

And our showcase would rival any whole. Showcase today. Um, [00:05:00] and again, we focused on quality and, and we were starting to get noticed by local retailers and which wasn't really normal. I think we had, you know, gone to a couple trade shows for wholesale, um, you know, looking for maybe start selling our, our products to other restaurants.

And we had a, a local, giant food, uh, buyer and a a, a whole foods buyer and Costco. And they came up to us and they said, You know, your products are so great. The standard in the frozen seafood aisle is so low. Um, you know, we, we wanna bring in high quality products such as yours. Have you thought about getting into retail?

And of course not. You know, we're working basically eight days a week at the restaurant, uh, working our butts off and, um, you know, not something we had thought about. And, um, you know, the more we thought about it, the more we thought, Wow, this is, this would be a. Fun way to get our amazing products that, and a lot of 'em were, you know, family recipes [00:06:00] that had been handed down.

Um, and, you know, we thought, wow, this is a great way to, you know, just expand our network and, and, and availability of these products. So we did a very, uh, I think, uncommon thing, which was jump from restaurant to CPG company. And we really had no idea what we were doing. Um, I remember one time I had a buyer, he was coming up to me and he'd asked me about, you know, if we had UPC barcodes.

I had no idea at the time what a UPC barcode is. And I think I said, Oh, we have, you know, UPCs, but no msg. Like, so it's just not knowing what we were doing and. Um, and at that time, you know, we had, we were in this like nostalgic, um, beautiful small time seafood industry and at that point when we made the switch from, you know, market to CPG company, we went from smaller, you know, crabs as our suppliers to bringing in containers, uh, you know, from either [00:07:00] Indonesia or Mexico or what have you.

We, we entered a whole new world and. What we discovered was, whereas there's a lot of, you know, people in the seafood industry that are, are, are great and, you know, do things as sustainable as possible. What we were seeing was a lot of unsavory practices and we were witnessing them firsthand. You know, it's not like we were just reading an article about it.

Um, you know, in the industry news like. I remember, you know, touring a plant with a, a great colleague of mine and he owned the company and he was showing me, you know, his plant and he was known for selling, um, dry seafood, which means no, no extra chemicals being pumped into the, into the products, which is commonplace.

And, um, I saw the chemicals there and I remember looking at him and saying like, What, you know, what is that? And he just laughed and said, You don't really think that there's an actual dry product, do you? And I thought, Wow. Like here's someone that I really, you [00:08:00] know, admired in the industry and he was, you know, deceiving the public and it was.

The problem is, is that it was commonplace. Um, um, you know, I don't know if you've seen the, the documentary CPI yet on Netflix, but one thing that resonated with me, well, there's a lot, but one the things you know, that Allie was saying, um, he, he just couldn't believe that no one knew about. This stuff, you know, how was it that he didn't know?

And that was my exact sentiment when I had gotten into this global seafood industry. How is it that nobody is saying anything? Um, and this was just one, you know, uh, chemical glazing and pumping with, um, you know, phosphates is one thing, but then there was mislabeling and then you learn about human trafficking and child labor and fraud.

And I mean, the list just goes on. And we were just really disheartened. And you know, another thing when you, at least back in the day, I think it's gotten a little bit better now, but you would walk the, um, the halls of the Boston Seafood Show, which is, you know, the number one trade show [00:09:00] in North America for seafood.

And you wouldn't see any women there at all, or diversity. Uh, we used to joke that the only women you would see were half naked in mermaid costumes selling smoke salmon. Hmm. Wow. And just, just no diversity and. You know, I don't wanna be presumptuous, but maybe that's, you know, it was a big part of the problem, , and you know, I just thought.

Sitting here is this little family owned company looking at this gigantic industry that had so much wrong with it that was having devastating consequences on the oceans, uh, and livelihoods. Um, you know, I was gonna do something about it. I didn't know how, I didn't know when it was gonna happen. Um, you know, I just knew that I had to be part of the change.

And we, about a year later, we had been working on a brand called Wild, Skinny, Clean. And to me, that was my, that was my, you know, soapbox. I was gonna stand upon the brand, um, to educate consumers about what was going on. So if you're still, if [00:10:00] you're gonna eat seafood, you need to know exactly where it's coming from because of these reasons.

Um, And, and showing the consequences of what's going on, of not knowing where the seafood is coming from and understanding sustainability. And so, you know, we were all about wild and sustainable, caught seafood in the US and we were, um, all, you know, really great ingredients and no, no GMOs and no soy, no pumping with chemicals.

All clean label and. This was my, this was kind of my answer. This was gonna be my starting place of what I was gonna do with the tools that I had, which was creating a consumer facing brand. Um, and you know, at the last minute we had been developing a plant-based crab cake. And we, Why

Paul Shapiro: Monica, why were you thinking about it for sustainability reasons?

Like, why were you in the process of creating that plant-based crab? Well,

Monica Talbert: in the beginning, I mean, I would love to say it was, you know, for sustainability reasons, but you know, we, we just saw [00:11:00] opportunity for it and we thought, you know, why don't we take our experience and what, you know, we've been doing for so long and just try our hand at creating something.

Um, and not to fool people, but kind of, you know, we were having fun with it and you know, the more we. Working on it and developing it. We, we, we found this passion for doing it and, and fooling people. And, you know, we had some of our, our greatest customers telling us that it was one of the best crab cakes they've ever had.

And we were almost kind of offended, right? like, well, there's no crab meeting. You've been, you know, having our crab cakes for years. Um, and we decided, you know, after some thought that. Everything that that plant-based crab cake could stand for. The fact that we weren't using any animal products in it whatsoever.

Um, you know, the impact that it could have when you're talking about a true sustainable alternative to everything that was going out, going on out there, this was the 100% sacrifice free [00:12:00] true seafood alternative. Um, not, not the fish and wilds getting clean that we were creating. So we, we added it to the lineup.

Just, just to see, you know, how it would go. And the next day we were getting phone calls from all over the world and it was unlike anything we had ever experienced with our other brands in the seafood company. And we thought we also just sat down after all this and, and we thought, wow. What we thought wild, skinny, clean was going to be in the industry as far as this agent of change, this thing that was going to disrupt the industry, get consumers to finally start asking informed in questions.

It was actually plant-based seafood. And we, at that point, immediately started adding, you know, innovating with different kinds of, of seafood and, and shrimp. And, and then we, you know, uh, went to lobster cupcakes and, and scallops. Um, and it was just, you know, it was that aha moment that, you know, that we got led to [00:13:00] plant-based seafood.

It was, it. I don't wanna say divine writer, the universe just showing us. But in a way, that's kind of how we felt. Um, and we really feel like this is the reason for our whole journey on how we got here. This is, this is our purpose and this is how we're going to change the industry and change, you know, the really the, the plight and the, the future of the oceans.

Paul Shapiro: So, you know, it's, it's compelling to hear you talk about that, Monica, and I'm, I'm certainly impressed by the story On your website, you have some pretty, uh, strong language about the seafood industry. I'm just gonna read from your website here. You say during your 20 years in the seafood business that you've witnessed firsthand the unacceptable and often hidden practices in the seafood industry.

Overfishing, mislabeling, chemical lazing, child labor, human trafficking, modern day slavery, just to name a few. Uh, so you then talk about how our industry. [00:14:00] Is hiding so many secrets from consumers and devastating the oceans and communities and lives. That's pretty bold language. So how has the conventional seafood industry from which you were born treated you when you're talking this way about them in marketing your plant-based seafood alternatives?

Monica Talbert: You know, it's interesting. There's been a lot of pushback. Um, And I knew by putting that out there, but just the truth, um, because that is why we are as passionate as we are. Um, you know, for, for creating change. The seafood industry knows that it's true. Um, you know, the issue is that there's, there's two industries within one in, in, in the seafood industry.

One is the illegal seafood industry and, and one is the more general commercial seafood industry. But as a whole, everybody knows that it's going on. So there's nobody that can come to me and say, You know, what you're saying is false and you're misleading consumers. Um, that's, that's not the case. Um, and you know, it's, it's [00:15:00] interesting.

I don't know if, if you've seen, I've, I've done a lot of, uh, just research and paying attention to how the seafood industry is just responding to, uh, cspi. and which is the same thing, right? Cspi is taking things that are going on and they are telling, finally telling and showing the consumers in a compelling way about it.

Finally, And the seafood industry as a whole, um, I think is just doing what they've always done, which is what they always done, but in a way with this information is just ignore it. Um, and I think that they've, they've put that language out there already that, um, you know, whatever's coming out in Cspi in the response that they're just, they're just going to ignore.

Yeah,

Paul Shapiro: and for those who, uh, aren't familiar with Cspi, it's a new Netflix documentary about the Phish industry and we'll, we'll certainly [00:16:00] include a link to it in the show notes of this episode. So, Monica, let me ask you, you know, you mentioned Wild Skinny Queen, which was the Van Cleaves brand that was at first doing, Both conventional seafood and plant-based.

And then you mentioned that you wanted to spin off plant-based seafood company as its own company. So why do that? Why not just have the same company marketing, both conventional and plant-based products? Presumably you get, you know, introduced to people who are buying conventional seafood as opposed to the people who are only looking for plant-based.

Um, you know, why have different company names for these different, uh, lines of product?

Monica Talbert: Well, we knew that we wanted to be completely different. We wanted to also not confuse consumer. That was, we already thought that, you know, the seafood industry was doing a lot of confusing consumers, and so we didn't want to be a part of that.

But I think also we knew that eventually, um, where we would be phasing out all real seafood products, [00:17:00] um, which we've already begun to do. So, you know, we've, we've fooled, you know, almost all of, uh, the Van Cleve seafood products out of retail and, you know, we. Are going through a phase, uh, or I say milestones of, you know, phasing van, CLE seafood out.

Um,

Paul Shapiro: Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well this is huge news. Let me ask you, like in terms of the size of the two relative companies from plant-based seafood CO to Van Cleaves, how much smaller is plant-based seafood Co.

Monica Talbert: Uh, well just the plant-based seafood company just started, right? We just launched in August. Mm-hmm. . Um, so, you know, that's hard to say.

Van Cle Seafood's been around, um, at least a CPG company since 2013. Mm-hmm. . Um, but you know, we see where the future is and also we don't wanna be misleading consumers. You know, all of this has been an evolution for us. I think a lot, just as much as it is for all of these new consumers that are choosing a more plant-based lifestyle, right?

It's, it's a paradigm shift that's happening. Um, a [00:18:00] little over little, you know, just small, one small informed decision over another. We're no different. So we are really starting to see the effects of seafood and how that would be, you know, hypocritical in a way that, you know, we're push. The sustainability of our plant-based seafood and how it's going to, um, you know, help the future of the oceans in this way, A, B, and C, but also still have a seafood company at the same time.

Paul Shapiro: Right. Well, it's a pretty bold, it's a pretty bold thing to do. I mean, you have a, you know, a legacy company that is not just creating something now supplemental to it, but is actually intended to replace it. You know, kind of like how Canon went from being a print photography company largely to being a manufacturer of digital cameras, so, Right.

They're still selling. You know, way to capture our memories. So it's really the same thing and the same way, you're still selling a way to enjoy a crab cake. It's just made in a very different way. And it's a, it's a really incredible tale that, that you have here, that this would do that, that you would phase [00:19:00] out the seafood portion of the company.

Monica Talbert: We, we wanna move forward knowing that. We are making things better in a more sustainable way and, and not the opposite. And sometimes, you know, we just, we don't ever wanna be compromising that, that mission and that goal, and.

Paul Shapiro: How has your own diet changed then, Monica? Have you thought about, like, obviously you're phasing out the seafood portion of your business on your own personal lifestyle.

Has this, uh, evolution impacted what you eat as well? Oh,

Monica Talbert: absolutely. Um, and it, and it, it's the same for my mom as well, who's, you know, this family-owned company. She's, she's my business partner. Um, it's also affected, you know, um, you know, Like how I feed my children and things like that. Um, I've always been very, very, very particular about what seafood I would consume regardless.

Um, because knowing all of the things that I've known, um, and being very careful on what I choose to support. Um, [00:20:00] and, but you know, even from a meat perspective, I, I eat a lot less meat, if any at all. And, you know, I truly consider myself, you know, plant based and, um, and, and also you. Introducing that lifestyle to my children as well.

Mm-hmm. .

Paul Shapiro: Very cool. That's great. So speaking of plant-based, let's talk about plant-based seafood co. Since that is, uh, not only supplemental, but it's actually your entire future. You've won awards for innovation. People are loving it. The product is called mind blown because apparently it's blowing everybody's minds.

Who, who's trying it? What is it, what's it made out of? We know it's not crab, we know it's not fish. What?

Monica Talbert: So we, each sea creature is different, , very much real life. And when you're trying to imitate it, art, heart of palm and artichoke hearts and, and green cabbage. Um, and then, you know, other non gmo, gluten-free, dairy-free corn free, soy-free, uh, ingredients.

With our shrimp and our scallops, we use, [00:21:00] um, a familiar product called Conject. It's fantastic for, you know, getting that, that kind of bounce back, uh, texture of a real shrimp and scallop. Um, you know, we're working on a calamari right now that's used that we're using mushrooms. So it's, it's definitely a wide variety of different, um, Ingredients and, and we're using, you know, ppro team, but also chick pee and algae and kelp.

And, um, you know, another great amazing thing is the innovation of ingredients that are happening right now. It's, it's really incredible and making our job a lot easier.

Paul Shapiro: Um, uh, speaking of Colari, and you've mentioned, you know, Cspi a couple times. Have you seen my Octopus teacher on Netflix?

Monica Talbert: You know, I am ashamed to say I have not seen it, but it is on my list to watch.

Paul Shapiro: I'll tell you, my wife and I watched it and it was incredible. I mean, we were like in tears. It was such a [00:22:00] powerful documentary about this guy's relationship with this one Octopus. So highly recommend. It will include a link to that also. But it's hard for me to imagine how somebody could continue eating calamari after watching this documentary.

It was such a powerful. Uh, so I look forward to your review once you watch it, but that's really cool cuz I, you know, have, when I was, uh, a, a much younger person, I really enjoyed eating calamari and it was, um, phenomenal. It's a great tasting product and I have had the vegan versions of it like once or twice and I liked it, but I don't really know of anywhere where I can get it on a regular basis.

So I would like to find some way to find it and I hope that yours will be the product that I get to buy on a regular basis.

Monica Talbert: Well, Shelly's working on it and she's, she's amazing at, at whatever she produces.

Paul Shapiro: So , I have confidence. Very cool. She's finished.

Monica Talbert: It will be phenomenal.

Paul Shapiro: Very good. Uh, and, and to give her the proper shout out, Sheey is also part of your family and she's your VP [00:23:00] of innovation, Isn't that right?

That's correct. Very cool. Yeah. She's, uh, truly wonderful. I love talking and working with her. Uh, did you ever hear the episode of this American Life about calamari by the.

Monica Talbert: No, but you're giving me lots of stuff to

Paul Shapiro: look into. . , it was, I don't wanna ruin it, but basically there's a surprisingly large amount of, apparently, according to this episode of this American Life, there's a surprisingly large amount of calamari that is misbranded, and it's not actual, uh, octopus at all, but is instead, pig anus.

And I know it sounds like an, like an urban legend, like how could this be true? I too thought, like this is just something that people talk about, but there is an entire episode about how this, uh, pork byproduct, you know, imagine that they slaughter houses. It's a lot of, uh, pig anuses that aren't getting used for anything.

And apparently, uh, some of them are getting deep battered in deep fried and sold as calamari, which is. You know, truly not surprises me. None . Uh, it's truly hard to imagine something more repugnant, but I'll wink to that episode [00:24:00] less. Anybody think that this is just some, uh, urban legend that I am, uh, a espousing here, but there is a real episode of this American Life.

Oh, I have, I have. Okay. So right now, my understanding, Monica, is that the products have been largely online, but that you're getting into retail and food service now. Is that correct? Like you're actually getting into stores now with the product? Yes,

Monica Talbert: absolutely. So this month actually, uh, is our launch into retail and we're great.

Extremely excited. Yeah, we've been working really hard, um, to increase production capacity that, you know, has, has been a bit of an obstacle that we've been able to overcome finally. And, um, and yeah, so we. Very, very, very excited to launch into

Paul Shapiro: retail. That's awesome. We'll be nationwide, East coast only.

What are we gonna get started with?

Monica Talbert: So we're starting in key markets. We're doing La San Francisco, uh, Chicago, Dallas, Austin, New York, and DC and Maryland. Um, exciting those areas first. Yeah, but I mean, Paul, [00:25:00] the, the interest is just absolutely phenomenal. For, I mean, we've been getting requests from retailers.

We don't even, we're not even having to go out and sell this and, and so, you know, we will be, I am positive with a national distribution very

Paul Shapiro: soon. Okay. Well, Sacramento should be on your list, but I'll go to San Francisco to pick up your product. I promise you. It's a short enough drive that I make often.

So, uh, that sounds really, really cool. What are the best sellers for you?

Monica Talbert: Well, actually I just looked because we're getting a, a big surge in orders online due to cpi. Um, and they're lobster crack cakes, so that Nice. That's today. But right underneath the heels are, are scallops. Um, those, those scallops are, are absolutely phenomenal.

And um, after that it's, it's our coconut shrimp.

Paul Shapiro: Ah, okay. Well there's something, They all sound really good to me. I can't wait to try. Okay, so speaking of lobsters, Monica, one thing that has been surprising to me is that, you know, for animals who are raised for food, [00:26:00] um, many of them like cows and pigs, usually the walls don't apply to chickens.

But for cows and pigs, there are rules relating to how they can be slaughtered. For example, they have to be stunned prior to being slaughtered. For animals who are aquatic in nature, there are essentially no rules whatsoever, but there are starting to be some technologies that are being developed. To, uh, actually try to reduce the suffering of these animals, uh, during slaughter.

One of them is a product called Crusta Dunn, which basically is a stunning machine for crustaceans like lobsters and crabs so that they will be unconscious before they get boiled alive. So, um, I know that this is probably like an esoteric topic that. Um, is not widely known, but what do you view as, let's say, the possibility of the seafood industry adopting those type of technologies that would improve the welfare of, of seafood, uh, of animals who are being used for seafood at slaughter?

Monica Talbert: I think in the future it's going to be something that's [00:27:00] mandatory. Um, I think that this is just the beginning of consumers finding out more about, uh, how seafood is harvest. And processed and how it gets on your plate. And with the consumer knowledge comes that power and becomes that push for, uh, industry change.

And I think that this, this is just the beginning of it. Mm-hmm. , you know,

Paul Shapiro: it's, Yeah. Sorry, go. I was just gonna say, you know, it seems unlikely to me that it will be socially permissible to boil animals alive for decades longer. Uh, that seems to me like with the increasing sensitivity toward animal welfare that our society is having, that seems like something that will have to go by the wayside.

Monica Talbert: Yeah. And you know, last night I was actually watching the Patagonia, um, film on, on farm salmon farming. I'm not sure if you've seen that one. Um, I haven't. But in the very beginning, you know, it shows this video of, you know, the fish just kind of being [00:28:00] slammed over the head with, you know, a big, like, probably like metal, you know, stick.

Um, and. You know, for someone I, you know, I hate seafood all my life, and I never really made that kind of connection. I don't think for some reason it just wasn't there. But there's this paradigm shift that's going on with consumers where more and more they are demanding and really desiring, which is the most important part.

To understand how the animal is being treated and how it dies like this, this matters to consumers and I think that that's, that's such a, a powerful thing that we will, you know, that will, the animals in the future will definitely benefit from so, and, and I'm excited about that.

Paul Shapiro: Yeah, I am too. Um, I am, uh, particularly sensitive to the plight of animals, and it's a big motivating factor for me personally and, uh, somebody who, um, would like to see a future with a better treatment of them.

I, I hope that, um, that, that what you're, the [00:29:00] vision that you're espousing, uh, turns out to be true. So, speaking of your vision, Monica, If you look at a lot of the companies in this space, they are bringing in huge amounts of venture capital. So, uh, other, um, alternative seafood companies, for example, like Blue Nalu, um, which is a company making cultivated seafood from actual sea animal sales.

They've raised, I think, cost to maybe like $80 million so far. Um, good catch. A plant-based seafood, uh, competitor. Probably raised, I don't know, maybe 50 or more million. Um, I know that you all have taken some venture backing from Hatch, the aquaculture accelerator program, but is that the path that you're looking for for plant-based seafood co to grow with venture backing, or are you thinking about growing it solely through revenue alone?

Monica Talbert: That's a great question. Um, you know, our background has always, always been bootstrapping. Um, that's how we've always run, you know, our family company. And when we got into this space, everything [00:30:00] was different and there's just so much impact investment out there. And, and VCs are really, um, excited about this space.

And, you know, we are of course, you know, looking at at, at VC funding, but also even. A bit bigger than that with strategic partners. So, um, That's just kind of where we are, but we'll have an announcement, uh, within the next month or so for you.

Paul Shapiro: Exciting. Yeah. So how big do you think, how, how big do you think you can get to, can take this?

I mean, do you envision, I mean, like I said, you're winning investor awards. Yeah. Excuse me. You're winning innovation awards. You're also winning awards from investors, I guess. Um, like do you. If you look at Van Cleaves, the seafood company and its growth in during its time, um, do you see this as getting bigger than that?

Like do you think you're going to be like the beyond meat of seafood here or of alternative

Monica Talbert: seafood? Well, comparing it to Van Cleave, it's, it, I mean, you can't even compare it. We. Ooh, [00:31:00] that's just, you know, a drop in the bucket with our goals and our ambitions for plant-based seafood is to be, I mean, beyond a hundred million dollar company and, and to, to have a global impact.

So we see ourselves having production facilities abroad and getting into the Asian market and, and the European market. I mean, we see ourselves as bridging the gap between, you know, the, the plant-based seafood. How it's always been more of a vegan product towards, you know, geared towards vegans. We see ourselves as bringing it to mainstream, into the seafood eaters and to the meat eaters, and truly giving them a sacrifice free, um, seafood experience.

And we see that worldwide. So we have huge ambitions for, okay,

Paul Shapiro: this company. Yeah, so you're going to dominate, You're going to become not just the beyond meat of alternative seafood here, you're going to become like, you know, the Gorton's or the uh, or the bumblebee here of alternative seafood, which will be really [00:32:00] exciting to see this global brand continue to grow.

You have big ambitions, um, but I'm sure there are many ideas that you have, Monica, that you think could be good companies that would also do good in the world, that you probably don't have time or resources to pursue yourself right now since you're so busy with the plant-based seafood Co. So for people who are listening who are impressed by your story and they want to kick the punch themselves and maybe start their own company, either in alternative protein or anywhere else that would do something good for the world.

Are there any ideas that you would suggest for them that you think, Hey, I wish somebody would start this company?

Monica Talbert: Yes. So, you know what blew my mind when I, I found out, and, and I'm ashamed to say that I only found this out last year, was that the omega threes and, and fish oil supplements or, you know, and actually comes from algae.

The algae that they eat. So the fish is the middle. And I really can't believe I, I didn't know that, uh, until up until a year ago. And so [00:33:00] I, you know, we are headquartered on the Chesapeake Bay and we see these fishermen that come in and they, um, just in our opinion, over fish these menhaden in the Chesapeake Bay and.

We've just seen the, the consequences of that and the degradation of the Chesapeake Bay, uh, mainly due, you know, to taking these men, Hayden, and they're using it for fish feed, but in also omega-3 oil. And just think how, how sad and how inefficient that is and what a world it would be if we just gave consumers the omega three s from the al.

And so I would love to see, and, and algae right now in kelp and all of seaweed is, is blowing up really. Um, so it's not a new business idea, but I, I would love to see more, uh, algae omega-3 supplements on the market available for consumers. Um, and actually, you know, Paula, an idea that we have, um, is phasing [00:34:00] out Van Cleave, you know, seafood products and looking into becoming the first seaweed farmer on the Chesapeake Bay and taking Van Cleave seafood and making it Van Cleave seaweed.

Paul Shapiro: Oh, I love it. That's so cool. That is really, really nice. So as somebody who takes an algae based DHA supplement daily, I have regularly marveled at why it is more expensive than a fish based Yes. Uh, DHA supplement because as you point out it, it's, it, it would be way more logical for, for the algae based one to be cheaper.

So I don't know why that is, but for whatever it's. I hope somebody takes your idea and comes up with a more cost competitive version of the DHA supplement made from algae. And I, as somebody who also consumes, uh, well seaweed on a daily basis as well. Uh, I hope that you will, uh, get your Van Cleve seaweed business out to California soon, too.

Monica Talbert: Yeah, me

Paul Shapiro: too. . . Cool. So you have been through quite a journey. [00:35:00] Monica going from international studies to becoming part of the seafood industry now to phasing that out and becoming a real, um, vanguard of the alternative seafood industry. Are there any resources that have been helpful for you that you would recommend to others who are either thinking about starting their own entrepreneurial journey, or maybe they want to join a company in this space that you think would be useful for them that you liked?

Monica Talbert: Yeah, so I, you know, with Bank Cleave, we, because when we got into, you know, the CPG part of the bank, Cleave seafood, uh, product lines, and, um, we didn't know what we were doing. And so we made a lot of mistakes. Um, went through a lot of obstacles. And even now coming from the seafood industry, sometimes I feel like I have one foot in the industry, um, and, and one foot out, and I'm against it.

And, You know, trying to balance. Sometimes I get a bit discouraged and there's actually, it's, it's not a book and it's, it's [00:36:00] not so much a speech, although it did come from Brene Brown, um, Daring Greatly and just, you know, embracing vulnerability. Um, it's, that's been huge for me. Um, because I think in the beginning when I was first starting out, and this is important for all entrepreneurs, I think you're not gonna have all of the answers.

But I think in the beginning, I wanted to look like I had all the answers. I was embarrassed to say I didn't know something. Um, I was, I was, I think ashamed of, of kind of being vulnerable in a way. Right? And, you know, now I embrace it. So I've learned from my, you know, everything, all the mistakes and failures and things like that, lessons learned.

So I, I've take, you know, I've taken into what I'm doing now. Um, but I think in the moment had I just been okay with being vulnerable, I, I would've avoided so many, uh, obstacles. And so she, um, she highlights a quote, it's from Theodore Roosevelt about Daring Greatly. And it's something that I, I've printed out [00:37:00] and I read all the time.

Anytime I'm, I'm going through, uh, uh, you know, something that I feel is an obstacle, and, and I'm just gonna read, you know, the last part of it because I think it's very profound. This is from Theodore Roosevelt, and you know, many of you maybe have have already heard it, but it is not the critic who counts.

It's not the man who points out how strong the man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by Dustin Sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, who comes short again and again. But there is no effort without error or shortcoming.

But who does actually strive to do the deeds? Who knows? Great enthusiasm. The great devotions who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement. And who at worse, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Paul Shapiro: Well, you will definitely not be a cold nor [00:38:00] timid soul, but I'm, You will also, I'm guessing, are not going to know defeat cause I will certainly be rooting for you and for plant-based seafood co. To grow into a huge company that will do an enormity of good for the oceans and for the world and for public health in general, Monica.

So I'm grateful for everything that you're doing. I'm really cheering for your success and I'm extremely impressed by your story, and I wish you all the best as you continue on this.

Monica Talbert: Thank you so much Paul, and thank you for what you're doing as well. Thanks

Paul Shapiro: for listening. We hope you found use in this episode.

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